After a while there was a dull ache around the bite, but that was probably around an hour after she was bitten. But the topic is back in force with the Stop The Bleed campaigns and the push to put more tourniquets in public places / increase civilian training. I guess the jury is still out on that one though? Additionally, he mentioned that a tourniquet to isolate the venom may be a bad idea, because some say it concentrates the venom into one area of the body and do massive damage, instead of diluting it throughout the body. Does anyone here have experience with snake bites? and private medical organizations offer free bleeding control classes, I'm not sure if it's okay to post links here, but you can find classes near you at https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search or https://www.stopthebleedday.org I'd highly recommend it to anyone who wants to be better prepared. Make sure you're not running with headphones so you can hear if they rattle at you. This can trap the venom in one spot and damage tissue. /facepalm. The tourniquet should go around the injured limb, approximately 2 or 3 inches above the bleeding site. Do not raise the area of the bite above the victim’s heart. That was the best Amazon review I've ever read. Among other topics we talked extensively about using tourniquets, then we had a hands-on demonstration of several brands of tourniquets and discussed the pros and cons of each, how they are carried and deployed, and how they have improved with each "generation" of development. March 31st is Stop the Bleed Day, many fire dept. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Don't run, and don't use those snake bite kits. I have heard mixed reviews about Snake Bite Kits and heard that the Snake Bite Poison Line tells you NOT to use these kits because it can do more harm that good. The bite was so severe that Edwards was kept at Vanderbilt University Medical Center until Monday. I mean, maybe if the limb is already severed but like a cut artery or something just reach right in there and pinch. The rule of "fuuuuuuck that's a lot of blood". Austere medicine teachers put together this beginner's guide to tourniquets. Their gear is the highest quality. Do not use a cold compress on the bite. ... saved a local elderly woman from a venomous snake bite … Wash the bite with soap and water. He knows what he's talking about. It's also a good idea to brush up on the poisonous snakes in your region. Some of my runs are with friends, others are solo, sometimes miles away from any road or home. Do not give the person any medications unless directed by a doctor. Key words: snake, bite, tourniquet, envenomation, venom, envenoming Introduction When a person is bitten by a snake, interventions by others at the time of the bite can in fluence the pathophysiology of the snakebite, the medical management when the patient arrives at … Do not use a tourniquet. An admin of a prepper FB group said this morning: "using a tourniquet guarantees amputation!" By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. This was posted in the hiking subreddit. 2. What if it cannot be found? It is a myth that arteries retract a large distance and that you should use a tq on a snake bite. Between the classes I've taken in the last year and the shooting last year on Oct. 1, it's becoming harder and harder to justify leaving the house for any reason without a TQ on my belt. Do NOT do any of the following: Do not pick up the snake or try to trap it. It will suck and the Antivenom is expensive as hell. Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. Same thing with running to get help. It's a long read, but contains some good advice from a herpetologist. Unless you're very young, very old, or have some sort of other complication, you'll likely have an incredibly shitty and painful time and come out fine. I'll be in an 18 hour adventure race in Florida this August, and I've literally had the same thought, over and over. I am super wary when I'm solo on infrequently traveled single track and I hope for the best while keeping a sharp eye out for anything that looks snake-like. DON'T use old first aid remedies: no tourniquet, no ice, no electric shocks, no cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. There might be special circumstances with extremely dangerous snakes), It causes the venom to fester in the limb and causes extensive damage, Also venom extractors do not have any evidence to back up that they work at all, Do not try to catch the snake to identify it in North America all except one snake species require the exact same anti venom. There are no long term effects, and they're not painful. Try using your off hand, pretend a limb is trapped, etc. Also, I recommend anyone regularly running in an area with wildlife should familiarize themselves with the animals they could possibly encounter. Just out of curiosity where did you find out about the NAR first aid courses? If the player character possesses a tourniquet when he/she becomes poisoned by an animal, the tourniquet will be automatically applied to counter the poison. Also, don’t try to let the venom “bleed out” by cutting marks on the bite with a blade. Pit vipers are the most common venomous snakes in the United States and include all rattlesnakes. The advice here is great, but as we know as trail runners in LA, cell service can often be non-existent on our trails. Tourniquets and bleeding control took second seat behind more popular skills like CPR for a while. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Cover the bite with a clean, dry dressing. do not elevate it. The snakebite tourniquet is a way of treating all kinds of venoms quickly by rubbing ground buffalo gourd seeds in the wound while using the tubing to tie off the limb to inoculate against further poisoning. Either a friend or a phone. Mostly just keep your eyes open and be careful. Research and modern products have changed the guidance around when you should use a tourniquet so the bar is much lower. They cover what you'd learn in a local class and bust some of the sticky myths. Press J to jump to the feed. Seek medical attention if you are not experienced with identifying snakes. Tunneler bite can be just as bad. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. Mike Edwards, 46, was bitten by a timber rattlesnake Saturday while working on his Rockvale farm. We report a case of snake bite complicated by tourniquet induced ischaemic damage and rhabdomyolysis causing acute renal failure. Good read. Trevett AJ(1), Nwokolo N, Watters DA, Lagani W, Vince JD. A common sign of a bite from a venomous snake is the presence of two puncture wounds from the animal's fangs. http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. If neurotoxic venom has been injected, and you are certain no medical care or antivenom is available, there is very little that can be done. You should instead call 911, remove any tight clothing or jewelry, and move as little as possible. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. 8.) Here’s what you should do instead. Don't use a tourniquet, cut the bite, or suck out the venom if you're bitten by a venomous snake. Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenomating after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte Gerais, Brazil.Toxicon 1998; 36:805-806. Snakebite Tourniquet - cuts off the venom, no need to scavenge glands and blood. Sometimes venom injection from the bite may occur. I learned a lot from it, hope you do too. If I'm going out hiking or running I always make sure I have a way to get help. Wow didn't realize it was that expensive, that's crazy!! In Australia all our snakes use the lymphatic system to kill you so as long as you use compression bandages and stay put you'll be fine. Pee on it and then get yourself a ride to the hospital. The species of snake was unknown. I would say the best thing you can do to avoid getting bitten is to be aware -- look where you're running, stay away from the sides of the trail that might be shaded or rocky. This may result in redness, swelling, and severe pain at the area, which may take up to an hour to appear. Thanks a lot for your detailed response, great info. If there is no reception, then walking to an area with reception or walking to an area with other bikers, hikers or runners. At least now I know to immobilize the wound, keep it below the heart and get to a hospital asap. TQs are for limbs only, and you should avoid the joints. The patient was hemodynamically stable, but the entirety of the right leg distal to the tourniquet was discolored. Wrap Around Limb. Cheers! There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. I guess you're more likely to infect yourself or make it worse, and they aren't great at getting venom out. He found the bitemarks and quickly fastened a tourniquet two inches above the wound, using a friend’s belt. You're not going to die 10 minutes after getting bit, but don't try to finish your run lol. I did a stop the bleeding course from the Dutch Red Cross and the one giving the course was or still is (forgot) ambulance medical. I live in Arizona and frequent desert trails. https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search. Similar local signs can be seen in viperine bites. Many snakes you encounter are going to be nonvenomous, and it would be very uncommon for a snake to actively seek you out to bite you. It's unfortunate just how much dangerously-wrong info is out there, especially among prepping circles. Tourniquet: Bad advice for a snake bite Share this: Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Click to … Butt yeah, a isreal bandage is also a very usefull thing to know. • Do not apply a constriction band or tourniquet with a belt or rope as that will cut off the circulation. Mark the leading edge of tenderness/swelling on the skin and write the time alongside it. • Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart. Not sure. That sucks that your instructer told wrong things. We hear from medical experts the RATs should be avoided due to the design. Which did you prefer? Request PDF | The Failures of Ethnobotany and Phytomedicine in Delivering Novel Treatments for Snakebite Envenomation | Snakebite envenomation (SBE) is a high-priority, neglected tropical disease. I wouldn't trust my life to a snake bite kit. Learning and sharing information to aid in emergency preparedness as it relates to disasters both natural and man-made. How important is it to identify the snake? If you get bitten, there's not much you can do yourself other than just immobilize the wound (brace it with your shirt and two sturdy sticks) and be sure to keep it below the heart i.e. Then we finished the day with six different moulage scenarios where tourniquets were used to control bleeding from everything from workplace accidents to gunshot wounds. Provide them with all the details you wrote down. A recent study showed that when civilians use tourniquets in a serious emergency, it increases the chances of survival almost 600%. Not that I've ever screamed like a little girl jumping over them before... Tl;dr If you are going into nature use the buddy system and pay attention because you are in a lot of trouble if you get bit by a poisonous snake. Thanks for posting, lots of great info. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. She didn't notice herself get bitten, she saw the bite on herself sometime after. Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. Last first aid course I took about 3 years ago they recommended not using them because of the risk of losing the limb from cutting off the blood supply and to just apply direct pressure to the wound instead and wait for emergency response. Age below 5 years, activity at/after the bite (playing/walking), no tourniquet, a longer bite to ASV time, presence of fang marks, neurotoxic envenomation and need for additional ASV dose were independent predictors of poor outcome in pediatric snakebite envenomation. I recently got a CAT Gen 7 from North American Rescue with the storage case/pouch still need to learn to use it properly but hot damn just holding the CAT you can tell it's made to last. Just be safe, and remember they're more afraid of you than you are of them -- most animals won't go out of their way to attack someone unless they feel very threatened. Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. I fully agree that avoiding snake bites is the best thing to do. The standard snakebite scene in many movies shows the victim applying a tourniquet to the limb and then cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. Both thin your blood, which is also what the snake venom does. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I'm glad it's changing. However by today's medical standards you've got a good chance if you seek medical attention immediately. Thank you for posting this. Sounds like calling the park head quarters, park ranger or 911 would be the best thing to do if you're alone on a remote trail. None of these "treatments" help and most of them make things worse. Source: Amaral CF, et al. Any advice is much appreciated. In winter look out for exposed paths and rocks where they can warm up. I checked their site but didn't see anything and I'd be keen to take some more in-depth courses. It will help with identifying it. You receive a patient with a Tourniquet already applied by a non-medic or junior medic… what now? Outside of that, bring your cell phone, if you can--especially if you're alone. Thanks, well worth the read. Thanks all! TL;DR: have a way out and really good medical insurance or don't get bit. Being educated will help you tremendously. DON'T risk another bite by trying to capture or kill the snake. Some snake bites are “dry bites” with no venom injection, so they may be survivable without professional treatment. Do not cut into the snake bite, that is,do not make incision on the body site of the bite. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. I was lucky enough to play with a rats a cat a softw and swat about a month ago as well which helped me make up my mind on which one i wanted to buy. Take a few minutes while relaxing on the couch today and learn a valuable new skill. Or if I would even go running... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. I'll update wording to clarify. At that point, you can try to keep calm and walk it out to civilization/cell service, buy a GPS emergency transceiver and be ready to push the SOS button, hope you didn't get envenomated, or just be diligent when running single-track solo. A snake's reflexes can still cause the snake to strike up to an hour after it has died.• If you have an encounter with a snake, give it the right-of-way. The first symptom of a pit viper bite is usually pain, followed by redness and swelling within 20 to 30 minutes. 5.) I know a lot of the trails in LA can be spotty with cell sevice, but if you're way out on a trail, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try getting through to 911. Abstract & Commentary Synopsis: Tourniquets are not beneficial and should not be used in the initial management of rattlesnake bites. A couple of months ago I took a six-hour traumatic bleeding control class from North American Rescue. Cheers to being lucky and safe in the LA wilderness. If you're running with friends and one of you gets bit, carry or support the victim so they can immobilize the affected area while making it back to your car/your house/etc. Rattle snakes will let you know. That's probably not the case for your snakes. Snake bites: Contrary to what you see in movies, tourniquets should NOT be used on snake bites. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenoming after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais, Brazil. The Red Cross first aid advice for snake bites is: • Wash the bite with soap and water. Better avoid getting bit then eh!?! Toxicon 1998;36: 805–808. Symptoms vary according to the size and species of snake. When it comes to venomous/deadly creatures, I will always take advice from an Australian. Author information: (1)Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Papua New Guinea. In the past 12 months I've seen about 5 snakes on the trails, including some rattle snakes. While I have a general idea of what to do, it is reassuring to see others agree with best practices. With a coral snake bite, the affected area should remain below heart level to slow the spread of its more potent venom. Great post! Do not attempt to suck the venom out by mouth. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. Panicking will pick up your heart rate spreading the venom to your body much quicker. 1 The sequence of clinical events though simulates delayed envenomation of cobra bite; important differences are bleeding from the puncture wounds, muscle spasms and no evidence of flaccidity. 6.) How do I assess a snake bite patient and tell a difference between the various types of venom? View Article PubMed/NCBI Google Scholar 23. Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. My tribe, Twisted Hairs, had a better way than Antivenom, if you act fast. For the most part, if you aren't elderly, very young, or have a compromised immune system, you have an hour or two to get to a hospital. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. Ive joined Reddit a few weeks ago, stoked to read all the different topics. The big disadvantage is that it's difficult to use on your own arm. Have you also noticed the number of range masters / RSOs carrying TQs? Absolutely. If a rattlesnake bites my leg I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stay calm. pmid:9655642 . NEVER handle a venomous snake, not even a dead one or its decapitated head. • Get medical help. • If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. TONY DALY-CREWS: For a snake bite, don't use a tourniquet. All are pretty shitty options compared to running without snakes, but that's life. 7.) Snake species. The instructor talked about tourniquets for maybe one minute, and about half of what he said was incorrect. I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff, I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff. I ended up choosing the SWAT-T. If you have a phone call for medical attention and stay put -- if you have to move a little bit get a big stick to use as a crutch and stay off it. I wear a CAT in a NAR rigid TQ holder every day and I plan on buying a couple more of the holders so I don't have to take it off of my duty belt for casual wear. TQs don't solve the problem, they just buy you time. Try and generally stay calmish and get back to your car to get to the hospital. Bringing a Sharpie and taking notes definitely get me thinking. Reduce your snake bite risk as well. Snakes can't hear you, but they can feel you, and the pounding of your feet might be enough to scare it off the trail if it's sunning. I always carry a phone with me in case of an emergency, however the reception in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel Mountains is pretty bad. My mum's been bitten by a snake. There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. I wonder how it would go down if a bitten person had to backpack 20 miles back to the car to get any help.. • Do not drink any alcohol or take aspirin after a snakebite. If you can take a picture or describe the snake, that's good but not essential. Insurance for tough times. What do you recommend doing when you're on a remote trail and you get bitten by a snake? Yesterday, as required for work, I took a six-hour AED/CPR/first aid class from the American Red Cross. If you're running in bush regularly learn the proper snake bite treatment technique for your snakes, being a phone or a friend is basically it. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. The ability to be used for sprains is great too, I'm far more likely to severely injure myself due to a sprain in a remote area than suffer major bleeding. While just two snake bite deaths were reported in the state since 2010, one in 2013 and one in 2015, around a fourth of those who sought assistance through the GPCC needed the antidote. I've been rattled at up in the Sespe Wilderness, but never down in the Santa Monicas or San Gabriels, though I have seen a few California King Snakes and Racers. Its sometimes tricky when running fast downhill, but you mentioned several good points to keep in mind. Snakes are massive scaredey cats and the biggest cowards even if you stand on them I've found. CORNISH: That's one of the listeners who wrote us about this, Tony Daly-Crews of Buckeye, Ariz. I'm always trying to advocate the use of TQs, I'm pretty active in the firearms community, and it's starting to catch on, but for a long time, it wasn't "cool" to post a TQ in your Instagram EDC flex. If you're going to be in a situation where you are alone and far away from anything, do carry a phone in case of emergency. I've seen tons of snakes but never had one strike at me. I think I'm way more likely to use it on someone else though. How can you tell if it’s a “dry bite”? I appreciate everyone's responses here. Vomiting, blurred vision, tingling of the limbs, and sweating may result. Some FAQ: Tourniquets are not taught as a last resort anymore. I asked an EMT at my work the same question that you're asking here, and he said the same thing about snake-bite kits. It's a diminishable skill that most people get wrong at first (it's not hard, just awkward), so take 10 minutes and practice every year or so. Tourniquet injury in a Papuan snakebite victim. I'd be dead in minutes from the adrenaline pumping the venom straight to my heart. Rattlesnake Bite— Tourniquet or Not? The United States has about 21 species of venomous snakes, which include 16 species of rattlesnakes, two species of coral snakes, 1 species of cottonmouth (or water moccasin), and two species of copperhead.At least one species of venomous snake is found in every state except Hawaii and Alaska.. It will help with identifying it. Lower heart rate = slower spreading venom. If a snake does bite you, look out for the symptoms of a venomous bite. In summer look out for long grass and exposed rocks and if your running is more like Bush walking then wear gaiters. 4.) As someone from Western Europe I am not quite sure how I'd feel about running while knowing there are snakes around me. There are several issues with tourniquets for snake bite: It's likely too late anyway The venom will spread rapidly though your system (as Weda says, the lymphatic system is the main carrier, not blood). Don't run with headphones on trails. If you do get bit, you need to get out of there as fast as possible while keeping your heart rate low. As long as you don't step on them, you shouldn't have an issue. A 10-year-old boy presented after a snake bite to the right calf. I don't have a lot of experience with this subject, but one key factor that you'll need to remember is to STAY CALM and keep your heart rate down. I live in Los Angeles and have been running a lot of trails lately. You might have been taught the old cowboy trick of applying a tourniquet and using a blade to cut the bite wound in order to suck out the poison. Or drink that mess. That was way more informative than I was expecting an amazon review to be! Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. For clarity, the retracting arteries and snake bites rule is or is not a myth? Amaral CF, Campolina D, Dias MB, Bueno CM, Rezende NA. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. With the medicine we have today you should be fine as long as you can make it to a place with cell signal and get an paramedic. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. Here's what I've always been told by rangers and trail runners alike: If you're alone, the best practice is to calmly walk to a place where you can get a ride to a hospital while keeping the bitten area below your the level of your heart (it'd probably be your leg, so no worries there, eh?). The chances of you getting a tourniquet on before this has happened is minuscule. I am waiting until after Christmas to order mine at this point. A tourniquet was in place just below the right knee. Though those Gartner Snakes babies pop out of no where and scare the crap out of you. 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Vince JD can take a picture or describe the snake, not even a dead one or its head! Find out about the NAR first aid courses, others are solo, sometimes miles away from any or! You make yourself with improvised materials mostly just keep your eyes open and be careful got a good if! About 5 snakes on the trails, including some rattle snakes products have changed the guidance around when you not! Do any of the head it on someone else though directed by a timber Saturday... Tight clothing or jewelry, and do n't step on them, you need to scavenge glands and.! Puncture wounds from the American Red Cross you receive a patient with a blade a difference between the types. A blade LA wilderness herself get bitten, she saw the bite with soap and water prepping circles of! The spread of its more potent venom using your off hand, pretend a limb is already but. Bite … Wash the bite, but that was way more likely to infect yourself or it. 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